First Airline to Charge for Carry-On

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Originally Posted by ex machina

I am all for carry-on size enforcement. I am also all for clearly stated carry-on policies. Give us hard numbers, please. I like the idea of sizing bins and I think it should be mandatory that all passengers place their carry-on in a sizing bin and that it be required to enter and exit fully without any squishing, stuffing, or prying. If someone didn't plan properly why should anyone else be inconvenienced? Poorly planned carry-ons shouldn't be allowed to pass the check point.

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I think we already have what you describe. It seems as though you are in favor of some form of punitive action for the offenders.

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The size is so much, over that it should be TSA enforced that the bag won't even be allowed to pass the security check. Let the inconsiderate or ill-prepared carry their own bag back to the ticket counter and check it. I bet that will only happen once and they will have gotten the message. Flights will be missed as a result, but the message will get out.

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I must disagree here. First, it isn’t the TSA’s purpose to police the size of the bags. Nor is it their function to make any determination as to who is “inconsiderate” or “ill-prepared”. And c'mon... the idea that any airline would do something so imbecilic as to what I guess you’d call “teaching them a lesson” would amount to business suicide for that airline. Remember that passengers are also customers; they aren’t there to be punished or be taught a lesson.

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Originally Posted by KarlJ

I think we already have what you describe. It seems as though you are in favor of some form of punitive action for the offenders.

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Punitive? I think it is only fair that people be liable for their own poor judgment and not have others suffer for their trouble. I look at it not as punitive, but more a provision of relief for the other passengers.

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Originally Posted by KarlJ

I must disagree here. First, it isn’t the TSA’s purpose to police the size of the bags. Nor is it their function to make any determination as to who is “inconsiderate” or “ill-prepared”. And c'mon... the idea that any airline would do something so imbecilic as to what I guess you’d call “teaching them a lesson” would amount to business suicide for that airline. Remember that passengers are also customers; they aren’t there to be punished or be taught a lesson.

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KarlJ, this goes to my point. No airline enforces the rule effectively in large part because it would be counterproductive to their primary focus of profit. By relegating the TSA to do it as a mandatory federal travel policy takes the onus off the airlines and levels the playing field. There are many benefits to this, including the easement of boarding/deplaning means faster turn around, less aggravated passengers, an improved perception of air travel quality. Regarding teaching a lesson: isn't that what a cop does when issuing a red light ticket? Unpleasant consequences are a powerful aid in shaping approved behavior. Societies have used this fine point to hone many a civilization. Tax laws and breaks shape investments every year. Those investments shape the job market etc. And while it may not be part of TSA's mandate to regulate bag size today, there is no reason that it can't be expanded to include such. Heck, something as simple as a carry-on sized opening plate for the x-ray machine might be enough. If your bag can't fit through, reconfigure it or check it. Argue, and get detained is the weight behind the compliance. People pay taxes more because they fear the consequences of not, than they agree with the benefit of doing such.

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Originally Posted by ex machina

Punitive? I think it is only fair that people be liable for their own poor judgment and not have others suffer for their trouble. I look at it not as punitive, but more a provision of relief for the other passengers.

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Wow… I’m just wondering if that also applies to unwed single mothers, and other welfare recipients. Or for that matter, to those whose “poor judgments” left them with no medical care, or an incomplete education. If so, I find the whole idea a little un-easing.

I guess we’ll stand in dissent on this one.

With the creation of sites which bulk purchase airline tickets, we have all became annoying freight.

Freight that can be nickel and dimed out of their cheap fares by convenience fees for chow, sodas and luggage.

All the airlines sell passengers a cramped seat to get for point A to point B.

Most airlines are putting the nickel and diming out to the max, expecting people to take it.


Southwest and Jet Blue are different, they get my business.

I don't mind paying a little extra for some privileges, if I am given the choice in advance.


As far as courtesy is concerned, it doesn't exists on airplanes, one has to make sure to board early on, to be on the back of the plane where there is usually space for luggage.

Coats can usually be squashed to fit one's bag, I have done it many times.

Many people use of heavy rollaboard take away our light bags space, it is now less frequent with the luggage sizer.

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Originally Posted by backpack

With the creation of sites which bulk purchase airline tickets, we have all became annoying freight.

Freight that can be nickel and dimed out of their cheap fares by convenience fees for chow, sodas and luggage.

All the airlines sell passengers a cramped seat to get for point A to point B.

Most airlines are putting the nickel and diming out to the max, expecting people to take it.


Southwest and Jet Blue are different, they get my business.

I don't mind paying a little extra for some privileges, if I am given the choice in advance.


As far as courtesy is concerned, it doesn't exists on airplanes, one has to make sure to board early on, to be on the back of the plane where there is usually space for luggage.

Coats can usually be squashed to fit one's bag, I have done it many times.

Many people use of heavy rollaboard take away our light bags space, it is now less frequent with the luggage sizer.

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hi backpack,

i'm happy to say it's not all bad. you mentioned southwest and jet blue. i've also had a pleasant experience with british airways, virgin atlantic, virgin america, air france, and air india.

i flew air india most recently. while their ground service is far from perfect, their in-flight service is great. you do have people carrying oversized bags. when i was checking in at IAD for the flight to india, i saw the airline personnel checking people in ask someone to weigh their carry-on. they told them that it was too heavy, but didn't say to check it in or to shift the weight between bags or anything.

i helped a couple of people with getting their bags that were too heavy down from the overhead bin while inflight, including helping to close an overhead bin because it was so heavy!

i really liked that in addition to the hot meal after take off and the hot meal before landing, they served a cold mini-meal mid-flight. i didn't care for the cold meal and asked if they could provide something hot, and they asked if i'd like to have what was served for dinner at take off. i liked it and said i'd love that, and they heated it up and brought it out to me. that was very thoughtful of them.

another time, i went back to get a snack. they had wrapped cold sandwiches, shortbread cookies and spicy indian junk food (kind of like the small bags of nuts some airlines serve with drinks), and some drinks available throughout the flight. the flight attendant asked if i could help her with placing this box up into its slot. i was happy to help. after i helped her, i asked her when the next meal would be served so that i could decide if i should have a snack or just a drink. she said they would be getting the meal ready in another half an hour, but that she would be happy to heat it up for me now if i would like to have it then. i told her thank you and that i'd just wait for them to bring it around. but that was really thoughtful of her!

the seats were pretty comfortable for economy - i didn't feel like they were specially cramped.

i know the story is a bit different with the domestic carriers in the u.s. actually, my favorite choice for domestic travel has become virgin america, though their routes are still pretty limited. just as with other u.s. domestic carriers, you pay for your meal. but they make it easy to have food and drinks whenever you like with the ordering menu integrated into the entertainment system at your seat. they also offer a couple of vegetarian options which i appreciate :).

It seems like there is a gradual merging of the cargo hold and the passenger compartment. We ourselves are becoming just another piece of luggage and not treated much better than the bags that are thrown in the cargo hold underneath.

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Originally Posted by maverick

hi backpack,

i'm happy to say it's not all bad. you mentioned southwest and jet blue. i've also had a pleasant experience with british airways, virgin atlantic, virgin america, air france, and air india.

i flew air india most recently. while their ground service is far from perfect, their in-flight service is great. you do have people carrying oversized bags. when i was checking in at IAD for the flight to india, i saw the airline personnel checking people in ask someone to weigh their carry-on. they told them that it was too heavy, but didn't say to check it in or to shift the weight between bags or anything.

i helped a couple of people with getting their bags that were too heavy down from the overhead bin while inflight, including helping to close an overhead bin because it was so heavy!

i really liked that in addition to the hot meal after take off and the hot meal before landing, they served a cold mini-meal mid-flight. i didn't care for the cold meal and asked if they could provide something hot, and they asked if i'd like to have what was served for dinner at take off. i liked it and said i'd love that, and they heated it up and brought it out to me. that was very thoughtful of them.

another time, i went back to get a snack. they had wrapped cold sandwiches, shortbread cookies and spicy indian junk food (kind of like the small bags of nuts some airlines serve with drinks), and some drinks available throughout the flight. the flight attendant asked if i could help her with placing this box up into its slot. i was happy to help. after i helped her, i asked her when the next meal would be served so that i could decide if i should have a snack or just a drink. she said they would be getting the meal ready in another half an hour, but that she would be happy to heat it up for me now if i would like to have it then. i told her thank you and that i'd just wait for them to bring it around. but that was really thoughtful of her!

the seats were pretty comfortable for economy - i didn't feel like they were specially cramped.

i know the story is a bit different with the domestic carriers in the u.s. actually, my favorite choice for domestic travel has become virgin america, though their routes are still pretty limited. just as with other u.s. domestic carriers, you pay for your meal. but they make it easy to have food and drinks whenever you like with the ordering menu integrated into the entertainment system at your seat. they also offer a couple of vegetarian options which i appreciate :).

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Maverick, you are a wellspring of great information, as usual.

I was indeed speaking of the U.S carriers. I didn't know that Virgin was flying in the U.S. Something to think about.

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Originally Posted by KarlJ

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Originally Posted by ex machina

Punitive? I think it is only fair that people be liable for their own poor judgment and not have others suffer for their trouble. I look at it not as punitive, but more a provision of relief for the other passengers.

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Wow… I’m just wondering if that also applies to unwed single mothers, and other welfare recipients. Or for that matter, to those whose “poor judgments” left them with no medical care, or an incomplete education. If so, I find the whole idea a little un-easing.

I guess we’ll stand in dissent on this one.

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I don't know if your in earnest KarlJ or being deliberately obtuse. The context of my comment was related specifically to carry-on baggage. How you could think a suggested policy regarding baggage choices should be applied toward social programs helping those dealt a bad hand in life is beyond me.

A policy of enforcement as to carry-on luggage size is needed. Once items are standardized and the playing field is equalized we can all enjoy a better flight. Senator Charles Schumer agrees that Spirit Airlines has gone and crossed a line in charging fees for carry-on. Hopefully he will take it a step further and via an enhancement of TSA protocol enforce a proper policy that the airlines have failed in doing.

My position of equalization of carry-on would be more properly interpreted as one of leveling the field for the benefit of the many. We are allowed a finite amount of space for carry-on, and people should plan accordingly. If you have more, check it. No one is being denied the capacity to take luggage. What I suggest be regulated more forcefully is the size of carry-on actually allowed on board (not just stated in policy.) The most cost effective and impartial way is via the TSA structure already in place. It is simply the addition of sizers at the checkpoint. What could be simpler? What could be more equal? Medical items still get excepted, etc.

I oppose the current tacit elitism and support an egalitarian approach toward carry-on baggage that remains compassionate towards those in need. The short of it is I'd like a return to civility.

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Originally Posted by backpack

Southwest and Jet Blue are different, they get my business.
...
As far as courtesy is concerned, it doesn't exists on airplanes, one has to make sure to board early on, to be on the back of the plane where there is usually space for luggage.

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Well said, backpack. I too generally fly JetBlue these days. They have treated me well in the past and I expect they will in the future. I also find that by booking a seat in the back, thus being among the first to board, I get to conveniently stow my baggage, and I have easy access to a rest room. Also, should I need the assistance of a flight attendant, they are usually either passing or otherwise nearby. The cost for my improvement of flight? I am often the last to deplane. That loss of time is more than made up for by my avoidance of the luggage carousel. ;) I am in a good mood and had a good flight by following this plan. I encourage the less savvy to book toward the front. :p

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Originally Posted by ex machina

Well said, backpack. I too generally fly JetBlue these days. They have treated me well in the past and I expect they will in the future. I also find that by booking a seat in the back, thus being among the first to board, I get to conveniently stow my baggage, and I have easy access to a rest room. Also, should I need the assistance of a flight attendant, they are usually either passing or otherwise nearby. The cost for my improvement of flight? I am often the last to deplane. That loss of time is more than made up for by my avoidance of the luggage carousel. ;) I am in a good mood and had a good flight by following this plan. I encourage the less savvy to book toward the front. :p

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Ex machina: great minds think alike :)

We might meet one of those days at the back of a plane with our Tom Bihn bags in tow.
It is more than likely that I will also have my husband in tow. :)
He will be the one carrying the Brain Bags. :D