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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM4HIRE View Post
    A minimalist approach is best, I vote for no padded handles.
    Me too. If I can fold it in my pocket it's a must. I plan to fold it in my Aeronaut and use it as a day pack or grocery pack when arrived.
    Perhaps large handles in the same fabric as the bag could be sufficient. With two attachement points to fix an absolute shoulder strap when I want to carry heavy things during the day.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just View Post
    Right, then there are some of us who live right next door to the store, but still have to haul our one or two heavy bags about a half mile, all told, from the door of the store to the door of our high-rise apartments... or my cousin, whose car-to-door haul of six to eight grocery bags at a time have caused some permanent damage to her veins.

    Needless to say, I vote for padding. It really doesn't add that much bulk to the bag (if it's the same as on the Utility Tote).
    I'm no doctor but I would think the physical damage could be avoided by carrying less. I would also guess that switching from platic to cloth would be a huge help as the plastic handles will collapse to a very small surface area and dig into your hands. A cloth handle cannot collapse to such a small surface area so it can't dig as much to cut the blow flow and what not. Again, just a theory.

    But you bring up a good point regarding target market and design. If the idea is to meet the needs of someone who has to make a semi long haul then comfort is of course important. But if the idea is meet the need of those who wish to be more green and not use plastic bags, comfort might not be as important.

    In your case, living near a store, my perference would be something on my back for comfort. I would avoid my shoulder and hands and go right to the back. I might even buy my own small shopping cart for the ultimate in dorky.

    The other thing that someone else mentioned is taking the bag with you on trips. This really didn't even occur to me but brings up another possible use. For that use I think straps would become important because you're going to be walking around a lot doing stuff like shopping or sight seeing maybe. For a bag like that, I'd probably want pockets or a key fob too. See how easy it is to expand the design?

    It's a tough decision to make. The more specific you make the purpose the less flexible the product becomes. The more flexible you make the product the less it is able to do something extremely well.

  3. #18
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    I use the Lux for heavy stuff, like drinks, and the utility tote plus canvas bags for anything else. If I were going to walk very far, I might try the Smart Alec.

    I like the handle padding.

  4. #19
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    I think the Utility Tote or the Lux are perfect for hauling heavy stuff from the cart to the car.

    I would be delighted to see a light Dyneema Utility Tote to replace the ubiquious and ruinous for the planet plastic grocery bag.

    The padding on the handle is a great idea but not if it would raise the price of the Dyneema Tote too much.

    I agree with pretzelb about adding rings to add a Strap for hauling heavy load or to walk some distance with a medium load.


    For very heavy load and some walking distance between store and house, I also think that a backpack and one of those small carts are the solutions.

    Another solution could be a bike and 3 Utility totes, 2 on the back and one in a front basket. :)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    Is the padding on the Swift the same as the Utility Bag?
    If the choice is padded or simply a strap like what is below the padding on the Swift, then I say bring on the padded handle. We walk about a mile to Trader Joe's and I think the padding would be wonderful. We go often so we don't need 10 bags for one trip.

    I want a dyneema utility bag for more than just groceries. I was thinking about folding it into the Aeronaut to be pulled out for a day of walking. So I'd want the padding on my shoulder as we load in camera, guidebook, impulse-shopping, picnic foods, yada, yada.

    Too much trouble to make it both ways? with and without padding?
    Yes, the padded handles on the Swift are the same as on the Ultility Tote -- these originated with the LUX, and the handles were incorpoarated into the redesign of the Utitlity Tote.

    I thought that MikeL's comments were very illuminating, because they illustrate the usability factor for different people as opposed to figures for numbers of sales. I'm with Just here: I'd really like to see something lighter weight and more foldable than the Utility Tote but which has comfortable handles and straps. Ideally this could be used by people who are not just carrying things in these bags between a shopping cart and a car.

    I suspect that this will need two final products, because it's likely to be much easier to design a bag without padded handles/straps that is out of dyneema and that can be easily folded for carry-along usage with bags such as the Aeronaut. By way of background, I've used the Aeronaut since it first came out, and almost always pack a LUX although I've tried both Lux and Utility Tote and have compared the two (links presented in this last linked post also describe the LUX handle design more extensively and the LUX + Aeronaut travel combination). I also own and have used the Convertible Packing Cube (along with regular packing cubes, 'natch) that Tom originally described as converting to use for separate carrying functions by attaching an Absolute strap. While the Convertible Packing Cube/Absolute Strap combination is a nice idea, I haven't found it to be as generally useful as using a bag like the Lux or Utility Tote because of the packing cube's smaller capacity. (The fact that it zips completely closed can be useful for carrying some items, like cameras -- I was carrying this combination once when it started raining). One reason that I think a padded handle design for a carrying bag won't be as easy to quickly realize with light-weight dyneema is that in the case of both Lux and Utility Tote Tom uses the design lines and shape of the bags to design the padded handle so that this rides comfortably both on shoulder and sites well in your hand. A dyneema bag that can be more easily folded down (and even carried in your pocket) would make that harder to do. Incidentally, the obvious way to handle a packable design without adding pockets, etc is to add d-rings that allow the attachment of configurable pouches. Just my thoughts. I'd buy bags designed without the padded handle to supplement my Aeronaut accessories if these were foldable, just for the added convenience, but I'd really, really like to see a version with padded handles.

  6. #21
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    Darcy, has Tom ever considered producing an ultralight backpack comparable to the type GoLite sells? I'd like something very light to use as an air travel carryon. I have a SmartAlec, but sometimes it gets a bit heavy.

  7. #22
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    I'll be introducing more and more bags made of Dyneema, but I can't promise anything specific just yet. Glad to know there's someone out there who cares about the weight of the finished product!

  8. #23
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    One idea that I see getting more attention is the bag to fold down and take with you on trips. I had not thought of this use but it is something I can see the value in. But in my mind it wouldn't be a tote, which shows how everyone is different I guess. When I pack such a bag on trips, I look for either a duffle or a backpack.

    I have an LL Bean backpack that only cost around $24 (cheap imo) that is light, has good comfortable straps, and even folds into a pouch. It's great for when I go hiking but it can even be good for shopping or sight seeing. I also have a Red Oxx duffle that I use as an emergency bag. This is more for when I fear I will have too much stuff for the trip back and I need something to check. It's not big but it is very rugged. I don't plan to carry stuff with it on the trip (I prefer backpacks for carrying) but I suppose I could. The duffle doesn't fold down to a small size so it takes up some room, but I allow that because it's rugged and I'm more worried about how it stands up to baggage check.

    So my original thought was just a simple grocery bag replacement. But I do think an extra travel bag is a great idea too. I'm just not sure both can be combined. The travel bag would need to fold down to a very small size of course and comfort straps would be important for shopping or sight seeing. But as I said I lean to backpack style more than tote or shoulder so that really throws the design ideas into a spin.

    I also have to admit I don't know much about Dyneema so a lot of my ideas may not apply. It could be I own something that is Dyneema and just don't know it.

  9. #24
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    I'm in the padded handle camp. If all I wanted was a simple, cloth bag to replace plastic ones, without padding, well than I'd just use the reusable ones that many grocery stores sell. Yeah they're not made of super tough material and they're not water proof, but if we're really talking minimalism, well, there you go.

    But if I'm going to be paying the extra for high quality fabric... I'd kind of like to pay the little bit extra more to get padded handles. I understand the argument that people want this to be able to fold and that they want it to be light, etc. But if the two different camps are "I want something light I can fold and travel with" vs "I want something light but durable and comfortable to carry my heavy groceries with," then maybe people really are thinking about two different bags.

    I don't know where the bigger market lies, though, or if it is worth making both bags. I'm always a fan of padded handles and straps, so that's where my preference lies, but on the other hand, I'm not yet of the settled and with enough money variety that I would probably buy this product anyway. Still saving up and waiting for my backpack =)

  10. #25
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    I'm not sure I understand where the idea is coming from of "padded handles=heavy + non-packable." Because the handles on the Utility Tote barely take up any room or weight. As for folding, how small does it need to be? Those handles are pretty slim and short too.

    Also, the possibility of metal rings was mentioned, to attach a shoulder strap. Wouldn't that add the weight and bulk those same folks were worried about?

    For the record, the Dyneema packable duffel sounds like a great idea, and I'm fine with no padded handles for that.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just View Post
    Also, the possibility of metal rings was mentioned, to attach a shoulder strap. Wouldn't that add the weight and bulk those same folks were worried about?
    It could be plastic like on convertible end-pocket for Aeronaut.

  12. #27
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    I'm fine with no padded handles too. There's are simple solution for those
    who want padded handles and that is to go to REI's travel section and buy
    padded velco wrap around 6" handles you can use on totes and luggage.

    Here's an example: http://www.magellans.com/store/Lugga...iesLA101?Args=
    Last edited by PM4HIRE; 11-01-2007 at 01:04 PM.
    Tom Welch > Mesa, Arizona, USA
    Author of 101 Financial Ratios 5.0
    Travel Lite & Smart

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM4HIRE View Post
    I'm fine with no padded handles too. There's are simple solution for those
    who want padded handles and that is to go to REI's travel section and buy
    padded velco wrap around 6" handles you can use on totes and luggage.
    I was thinking about that too, expect I was going to suggest that Tom needed to design and sell such a thing! ;)

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bihn View Post
    I'll be introducing more and more bags made of Dyneema, but I can't promise anything specific just yet. Glad to know there's someone out there who cares about the weight of the finished product!

    I definitely do care about that. I hate schlepping haevy bags almost as much as I hate checking bags.

  15. #30
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    Would it work to have a non padded handle bag with d-rings at the sides so an Absolute Strap or organizer pouch could be clipped on if/when needed?

    Lightweight handles could hang down or be tucked in bag to stay out of the way when the Absolute Strap was 'on-duty'.
    Another happy owner of the Aeronaut, Sm & Lg packing cube, convertible packing cube, Absolute packing strap. Also travel with Ballistic Imago w/2 sm organizer pouches and style kit. Swift with extra key straps, organizer pouches and my quarter packing cube. Holiday Med. Ultrasuede® pouch, all 3 sizes of Stuff Bags, various key straps. I love them all!

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